El Vencedor ran 1:35.91, which is OK but not great for a G1 WFA race.  Orchestral ran 1:34.90 winning on Karaka Millions night and Willydoit ran 1:35.05 winning a R75 on 1 February. 

I am not doubting you when you say that the trainer was having trouble keeping weight on the horse, but did you read that or did the trainer say it pre-race? I am flabbergasted to hear that as I was all ready to follow up in the Derby, thus forgiving the crap run in the Guineas. 

Excellent questions, none of which I can honestly answer as every deal will be different, except possibly the latest one, because Cambridge own both the Slot and the Horse.  There will be other Slot Holders who are Stables but almost certainly, they won’t be the Owner(s) of the horse.  I say, let’s stick to proper racing where the trainer trains and the owner owns and the middle man is GONE.  P.S. Call me a dinosaur if you want 🙃  

Could be the case, even the trainer has said he has trouble keeping condition on the horse, and if it's the case wont matter who's riding, so there's obviously a few factors in his poor run, not just the ride, and horses have off days to.

When comparing tracks, I always understood that Ellerslie was roughly the same circumference as the remodelled Ashburton. I noted several comments in the form guide for Ashburton yesterday that horses were there for the tight track, or shorter straight, racing. Ashburton is usually considered a front-runners track, whereas Ellerslie is traditionally thought of as a bigger track that suits most runners. This seems strange to me since they are roughly the same size. Perhaps after its own remodelling Ellerslie is now even more like Ashburton.

And also, in his defence...sometimes they fk it up, it must be a hell of a pressure situation sitting on a horse like that in a group race when it is going tits up.  So I feel for the man and I have often had success backing his mounts.  But this one was a stinker. 

In defence of Masa the rail was out 5m on Saturday making it almost impossible for back runners to get up. Not Masa's fault that Willydoit drew 11 out of 15. If he had gone forward earlier it wouldn't have made any difference. He couldn't even beat the sole maiden in the field Golden Century.

Can I ask a few quick questions of those who know how this all works. I think the winning stake is about $1.2m. What is the usual deal between the slot holder and the horse's connections? Do they usually split it 50/50? Meaning $600,000 for the horse's owners and $600,000 for the slot holder. Will the Aussie horses normally have their expenses paid and a guaranteed minimum, payment? I presume the winning horse will have the total winning stake added to their career earnings, whereas in reality the owners may only receive half of the stake. At least the winning jockey and trainer will receive their full percentages. And lastly, the handicapper. Will the winner get re-handicapped as having just won a $3.5m race, or will the handicapper take into account that it was a restricted entry race and the field wasn't all that strong? I suppose it will be interesting to compare the rating points attributed to the slot winner, the Derby winner and the consolation winner. It may be that the consolation winner gets a bigger re-rating as that, presumably, is an open entry race.  

The Ellerslie track is definitely playing slower now compared to the first few months after reconstruction.  There have been 40 1200m races since the track was reconstructed: 17 from January 2024 to April 2024 and 23 between September 2024 and last Saturday.  The average time in the first period was 1:10.20 with a range of 1:9.15 (Velocious) to 1:11.88.  Since they resumed in September, the average is 1:11.40 with a range of 1:9.94 (Ardalio) to 1:12.60. The problems with slipping on 3 occasions saw them carry out a lot of work through the winter break.  But they have also very clearly changed their policy around irrigation.  The approach they take now is to put a lot more water onto the track before raceday, typically around 50mm plus of irrigation.  The track is typically declared as a SOFT 5 and may or may not get an upgrade.  When they first opened, in January 2024, they made a statement that the track would usually be a GOOD 4 and it was for most meetings. The question is whether this will become less of an issue as the track beds down further with time.  But, in the meantime, I think it is fair to say that the Ellerslie track will have the fire out of it more often than not.

See if your posts are relevant they get posted if not they dont,simple,just like you do to others on your so called site.

Nothing at all like Sha Tin.  Pure sand for a start.  More like something that was built in Tasmania.

I agree. I thought it was an incompetent ride as well.

With the greatest of respect, "WD", what planet are you on? No trainer on earth would tell a jock to give a horse, let alone a red hotter, to have a quiet one in a G2 lead up to a Derby. Masa had ample opportunity to turn an incompetent ride into an unlucky one. He chose not to.  If J Mac was on board do you think that he would have been so negative?

You and Doug need some glasses...didnt notice horses reefing and pulling like the guineas...seems pace was reasonable...

First 800 in 49.8. Last 800 46.11.  Looks like a sit and sprint to me, certainly not a race run at genuine tempo.

I dont think it is a replica...I think Ellerslie did some of it their own way.

Just look at the race...but of course you just argue for the sake of it. Guineas for sure was a walk...not this race.

Mate you cannot defend fuckwits such as Bayley. Sure, Labour has had their clowns, but the Tories are in a league of their own. Remember the Tory MP from down South who pulled his penis out and sent photos of it to young women? The Party Of Law and Order did not lay a charge with The Police. Then there was The MP who had personal medical information of his constituent's given to him by a former President of The National Party which he disclosed publicly. Again, no charges laid with The Police. Bill English took money that he was not entitled to and instead of charges being laid he was appointed as PM and received a Knighthood.

100%.  And I hate to say this but I think things like Champions day and BGPaid etc are all window dressing, if we do not address this fundamental issue at the heart of the industry - if punters do not have confidence that the horse they backed is at least trying to win, then turnover will fall.  No turnover? No industry. At least not here.  Having said that, as followers of the game we would all be aware of what the top horse's final races in a campaign are, and to be frank one of the benefits of the big money races is that you KNOW jockey and horse will be trying their hardest.  I could not believe the sub $2 quote for the fave on Saturday - so plenty of people would have unloaded only to see it finish...10th. Stipes report? 

That's dishonest.  Punters have the right to think that horses are out there trying...or else they will find other things to do.  Watch football, or something.