El Vencedor under injury cloud LOVERACING.NZ News Desk 22 April 2025 Multiple Group One winner El Vencedor is under an injury cloud ahead of next Sunday’s Gr.1 FWD QEII Cup (2000m) at Sha Tin in Hong Kong. Dr Bronte Forbes, the Hong Kong Jockey Club’s Head of the Department of Veterinary Regulation, Welfare and Biosecurity Policy, has advised that the Stephen Marsh-trained gelding is being treated for lameness in the left hind leg. The son of Shocking has been restricted to light work in the quarantine trotting ring since last Friday where he is being provided veterinary care and farrier treatment. Forbes inspected El Vencedor on Monday morning prior to and after the horse worked in the quarantine trotting ring, and advised the horse had shown improvement, and was passed suitable to complete trackwork on the Sha Tin track on Tuesday morning. El Vencedor will continue to be monitored and will be further examined at the first routine pre-race veterinary examination later today.

I think Te Akau are very professional with full disclosure in their agreements.  However I do not think this applies to all syndicators.  I think NZTR should be doing more so that all syndicators have to disclose the same data on a easy to read form so that investors know clearly what they are signing up to.

You do talk some shite , but to get it straight , I never got into Wild Night BECAUSE of his price , I loved him as a type , knew the pedigree and liked it , but the price was never the first and foremost reason . I have also bought into horses costing 105k and 110k , they also were selected first and foremost on type , then pedigree . You really need to get a life , you are low life pond scum , always dragging discussions down for the sake of disharmony . I really have no understanding of why someone who has their own forum needs to spend so much time on a rival site . Doesn't say a lot for your own forums quality .

Just caught up with this. I think you have a lot of fun ahead of you Joan. Looks very smart and covers the ground nicely.  https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=DA279F82-FE8C-4C55-8DEA-5CB32695A4FF&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE  

In 1912 in the first edition of The Bloodstock Breeders Review (an annual publication) J B Robertson pointed out weakensses in the Bruce Lowe Figure System e.g the better families (the lower numbered families) had greater representation.  The Figure System book was by William Allison from work by Bruce Lowe. We do not know if the suggestions in the book are by Bruce Lowe. In my data horses born before 1900 are 4.1% of the total.  I would be forgiving of conclusions from small numbers. The Figure System book was a start. It gave us a numbering system, and it got people thinking about pedigrees. In the last few years there is much finger pointing at errors in pedigrees. These errors, as far as I can see, are centuries old. Do the correction of these errors help us breed better horses?   I questioned a DNA study that said inbreeding is increasing (a study that referenced 150 research papers). My simple analysis said the opposite. If DNA research can predict the ability from a mating of a sire and dam, or predict the ability of a new-born foal I will be interested. Pointing out errors in data or errors in conclusions without adding to our knowledge is described in Ireland as "the hurler on the ditch" - the spectator who knows everything about the game of hurling but does not actually get on the field and play the game.

Puke  RACE 3 FLORENZA . Fought on really well after siting outside speed, middle tempo, eased,  home slick in 33 and small change, Good family performers two and three back with 5 and 3 wins respectively, won’t mind a wet track, looked the goods when winning first up trial on a heavy track. Top of the book looks the main danger.  Good luck

You are just a waste of time he said from the beginning he wasn't but you still try to drag him down, he did the work he is a bloody good decent member and a good bloke answers questions unlike yourself...so tell us Doug where are the dozen or so horses you were talking about??? 

But the snart investors spread their risk.  Obviously you haven't sussed that yet.  Now the even smarter investors choose what horses to invest in based on their assessment of the breed, conformation and spread their risk.  You chose Wild Night based on value (you've stated that online) and a liking of his breeding.  Each to their own.  However at the end of the day Te Akau have a full disclosure policy (as do all the big syndicators) and an investor goes in eyes wide open.

Thanks Blaird, pretty much where I thought it sat … not surprised to see hard core facts confirming what I thought, thanks for your post 

Your whole analysis falls over at this point.  She learnt $6.5m on the track and was sold for $7m. She was purchased for less than $400k.  So wrong on that as well. There are numerous errors in what you have posted.  I guess you are a member of the anti Te Akau team.

See earlier threads, therein lies the answer … we are talking Australian “all duck no dinner” … and I love there go to attitude … winners

But what are you actually arguing?

The one thing to remember when looking at those big prices are that the people that are going into the stallion syndicates and fillies syndicates are paying out big money for even smaller %'s and while I'm no tax expert many would be tying in their shares for tax purposes . Someone with more knowledge might be able to enlighten us . And of course some of the fillies do have residual value even if they don't win big , and the odd colt makes it as a stallion so there is residual there as well . But on numbers those that win big are a smaller % , but that is like anybody who decides to race a horse .

I think the basic training fees would come to about 50k , for 10 months in work and spelling . The add ons such as nom's , acceptance , travel and such depending on quality of race would push the annual bill higher .

And you are leaving out training and related fees of at least 80k per year over and above the purchase price of each horse which Blaird doesn't take into account in his excellent summary.  Still waiting for the dozen horses that have returned a profit to the owners in the last ten years.  Im not anti Te Akau and they have bought some damn good horses for not a lot of money but if someone is going to profess to the be the best buyer of horses in the world I would love to know the criteria for that statement.   

Guess we can all sit back and see how the horses performs, over its next starts, certainly creating plenty of banter, a wise man told me never condemn a horse to its dead, I'll be watching with interest. 

For Doug to argue...nothing is impossible.😂

Impossible to argue with those stats.

Good luck to Stephen,Mark and the rest of the El Vencedor team on Sunday lets hope he can do New Zealand proud... El Vencedor on-track for FWD QEII Cup By  NZ Racing Desk  -  April 22, 2025   Share El Vencedor had a solid workout in Hong Kong on Tuesday morning. Photo: Hong Kong Jockey Club Quality New Zealand galloper El Vencedor (NZ) (Shocking), continued his preparations for the prestigious HK$28 million Gr.1 FWD Queen Elizabeth II Cup (2000m) at Sha Tin this Sunday, with a solid workout on Hong Kong’s all-weather track on Tuesday morning. “He is striding out nicely,” trainer Stephen Marsh said. “He’ll have a good hit-out on the turf on Thursday (24 April) with Zac (Purton). And that will do him.” El Vencedor’s journey to Hong Kong hasn’t been without challenges. Shortly after arrival, the son of Shocking experienced a minor setback with a hind hoof abscess. However, Marsh remains optimistic, stating that the issue has been resolved and the horse is back on track. The gelding’s recent form has been nothing short of impressive, boasting three consecutive Group One victories: the Herbie Dyke Stakes, Otaki-Maori WFA Classic, and the Bonecrusher New Zealand Stakes. These performances have earned him a spot among the world’s elite, ranking equal 10th in the latest LONGINES World’s Best Racehorse Rankings. El Vencedor’s adaptability on the track has been a significant asset. “The last four races he has led, he has trailed, he has sat in the one-one and has sat outside the leader and he has done a bit of everything,” Marsh noted. El Vencedor will face a formidable lineup in the FWD QEII Cup, including Goliath, Liberty Island, Prognosis, and Hong Kong Derby hero Cap Ferrat.

A lot of history check out Wikepedia .